I was about to ask the same thing kelza. Where can we find this "kiss"? I've always thot Natalie is hot & good for Carla but my hopes were dashed when in one episode, Natalie told Carla that tho she likes Carla a lot it doesnt mean she is a lesbian. This was when Carla told Natalie that Stella was into Charlie.

And ccogz & mercedes, I totally agree with both of u. U've really put my exact thots & feelings into words. I also want to add that CH gives me the feeling that she is underperforming coz she's leaving & maybe she herself is sick of the draggy storyline. IMO. Having said that I still think that she is a great actress, so full of expression & emotions. Really hoping she will stay.

Bette1985, I know what you're saying. 2 factors, I think. One - not much on the script to do or even improvise. Two - many a times, when 2 actors have screen-time together (back-and-forth dialogue, etc.), the performance gets augmented more if the acting level is balanced. Now, if one of them is consistenly weak in acting the part, it eventually affects the other's performance, unfortunately. Take, for example, in a social setting: If you're a very expressive, energetic person and you're talking to another person who's just not in your same level when discussing something, you eventually dial down a notch or two, be it if it's a conscious reaction or not. That's exactly what I observe between CH and AW. CH's performance is up there when she's doing scenes with Ansgar, Maria - 'coz Ansgar & Maria (don't know their real names, sorry) both have the ability to act out their lines effectively... But unfortunately, not the case with AW... well, at least that's my observation.... especially after watching today's epi.... man..!

Yes ccogz, I do agree with u regarding the importance of a balanced acting level betw CH & AW. But it is a pity that AW's poor acting is affecting CH. I wud have thot that CH wud help AW along by prompting her or playing out the scenes by ear. Just like how Crystal Chappel helped Emma (sorry,cant remember her name. Is it Jacqueline?) along and now Emma acts so well.

U r dead right about 2day's epi. I actually sympathised with AW for her poor acting, just because she looks good. Lol.

I know, Bette1985, I think after a while, one does get out of steam. Just like an energetic person trying to get a quiet, shy person to dance on the table together but after a lot of time and energy getting the other person to be excited about doing it, instead, the person just manages to dance on the floor. So, what can the energetic person do but to just accept the fact that the other person just can't dance on the table? Poor analogy, I know, but you see my point, right?

I think CH did try to get AW more involved earlier on (just watch the earlier episodes). Then AW got a little better. But then, now she's back down again. I think she's one of the actors who needs to have more/longer scenes w/ the other party she's acting with, in order to help her get to that "moment," so to speak, unlike some good actors who can just be in that role at a snap of the fingers and can deliver exceptionally well (or even good enough), be it if they're thrown loads of scenes or just 1 or 2.

So here's hoping things WILL get better in Sept/Oct....! Otherwise, it'd be more believable and acceptable to me, for Carla to choose her family instead of Stella, even if they push the "Carla leaves Shanghai with Stella instead.." down our throats becoz CH is leaving. It pains me to say this but if there's no emotional charge or anything coming out of the Starla pair-up, then why force it, right?

It's crazy 'coz you know, even the ultra-short Carla/Anke pairing had so much more depth given by the 2 actors than this supposed "serious" Starla thing! Like you, Bette1985, I feel real sorry for poor AW! But, POOR CH!!! I'm sure she wants to make this final relationship story a fab one on-screen but alas, ...it takes two...to make it work.. *sigh*

I disagree with this harsh judgement of AW's acting.

While she doesn't have the range and the easiness of CH's acting performance (after 6 years in the job) AW plays Stella very convincing IMO.

Let's just take a look at how Stella is supposed to feel in this situation. She is in love with her boss, Carla doesn't want anyone to know about it and after the first romantic meeting Carla disappears really quickly. Then Stella wants to tell her cousin and Carla is completely overreacting and angry at her for something she (Carla) does later on with Leo and Elisabeth. The rest of their scenes together is about the Ansgar/MaFra/Holding-drama and all Stella can do is listen and being there for Carla.

So, yeah, I would be a little unsure too if I were Stella. And that's what I see in her. Stella isn't someone who hides her feelings very well and now she isn't allowed to act on them. She doesn't want to disappoint Carla and she is someone with a low self-esteem, so for me it makes totally sense.

BTW, someone said above that Carla does love Stella more then Stella Carla - after today I can't agree with that. Carla acts so ignorant and egoistical with Stella right now - I can't see any love at all in her right now. Carla is completely blinded by the drama with Ansgar&co, it's incredible. I wasn't prepared to see this side of Carla so soon again. I have a feeling that after Carla has what she wanted - Stella - she takes her for granted and I don't like this.

Nike

Very beautiful interpretation and you are well right

Let's just HOPE, for all of our sakes, that we get a FAB, WELL-WORTH-WAITING-FOR ending for this couple, eh? I think, at the end of the day, however our opinions differ on the actors' performances, we do wish for the Starla story to be written well, eh? Plus, for me, I'd really like to see a good CH exit...again, IF she's indeed leaving...! I'll take anything - basically anything will be considered good in my book as long as I don't see heartbreak or worse, death!! Yowzah!

I'm in complete agreement ccogz

I think regardless of what we subjectively think of the actresses' performances, my main qualms again is how the story is written. Of course, what's written on the page can be enhanced or have a lesser effect by an actress' choice to play a certain scene. Here the non-verbal cues are important, as sometimes what's conveyed without having to utter a word speaks more than an entire monologue. Without the impact of feeling the words through gestures, subtle nuances, eye contact, etc the words spoken are meaningless. That said, all this becomes mute if again the actors aren't given the "building blocks"... the meaty material to work with, which I find the case at this point IMO

Whether one is partial to a particular actor or couple is immaterial, but what sustains longevity (Canna is a perfect example that still has captivated an audience to this day), and rooting value is allowing the couple to grow in the right measurement on-screen. We can create in our own minds how Starla is interacting off-screen (do I see many hay-stack involved lol), but again I find VL built momentum with Starla, and then it all that development suddenly petered out being overshadowed with the holding intrigue. There needs balance, and we need to actually see/feel how this impacts Starla on-screen instead of simply guessing or being "told". This doesn't mean Starla is a "lost cause" far from it, but I find there is definitely room for improvement to maximize them to their full potential compared to Carla's past relationships.




nike75, you do bring up a good point, and it's a believable reason for Stella's uncertainty playing out in this manner. Doesn't mean I don't think AW has room for improvement, but then again all actors strive to "master" their newest/latest performance.

Anyway, here's hoping we have more opportunities to see CH to grace our screen as she most certainly has mesmerized her audience

Well said Mercedes. U r so right about writers & actors working together to bring out the talent of both parties. Sad to say I feel that the writer for this storyline seems to be rushing things without any depth in the story created. Just look at how Stella wakes up one day & suddenly decided that she is in love with the countess. where is the buildup? And in less than a week or 2, the love-struck Carla who has been longing to be with Stella for so long, suddenly takes Stella for granted now that she got her.

Nike, I do understand Stella's situation (btw u put it real well) but somehow there's that missing chemistry between our lovely ladies. IMHO. But then again, I agree with Mercedes that there is "definitely room for improvement to maximize them to their full potential". Just hope CH will stay long enough for that to happen.

Exactly bette1985 We can argue chemistry, best couple, or many other subjective elements, but it's hard to garner rooting value when VL actually refuses to construct a believable story with their lack of buildup in constructing this relationship.

ITA that it seemed like a total 180 in how Stella was suddenly hopelessly in love with Carla. Not that Stella could fall in love with Carla (how could she resist ), but how it was executed or played out on-screen. The development (or lack there of) has gone in a blink of an eye to from "A to Z" completely skipping the middle parts that sustains/adds depth to a couple. Really it's quite jarring when you compare the development of the story in reference to the intrigue drama against the "bare-bones" development of Starla IMO

And I don't think it's too much to ask that Starla be given the same attention as well. I don't want to call it a double-standard because in the past Carla's relationships were given more focus and depth. So the question that really has to be asked is why this isn't the case (as of yet), which (while I'm hope is wrong) could leave some credence to CH's imminent departure rumors.

I couldn't agree with you more, Mercedes & Bette1985, about the seemingly "rushed" storyline for CH, insofar as her relationship dept goes. I don't think the writers purposely reduced its significance in the continued development of Carla. I believe it's much more about the status of CH w/ VL. That's just my assumption based on the fact that Carla's personal relationships in the past had always been richly thought out. The writers nor the actor had any qualms playing the role along w/ the storylines to their fullest extent; to a point where I can safely (if my memory serves me well) say that no other show in any country has ever fleshed out such an in-depth development of a character's personal life who just so happens to be gay! The equality given instead of the usual double-standards we see on TV just because of a certain sexuality involved. That, in itself, is amazing to me.

Anyway, I think, if the assumption of CH leaving is correct, VL had a decision to make about which part of Carla they'd focus on in order to give her a proper exit. Since time is of the essence here, I assume, they had to sacrifice something. We have to remember, they're cramming 2 huge parts of Carla's life into a matter of several episodes (we also have to remember that VL is not just about Carla). Somewhere, something will have to be "imagined" instead of viewed on the screen, so to speak. And they chose the LH saga instead of the relationship because it ties in with the current goings on with the other 2 main characters on the show - Ansgar and Maria. Also, since the LH has always been a huge and critical part of Carla's, it'd make sense that the ONLY reason Carla would actually leave for good is about the LH. And to create even more drama, they throw in Carla's relationship problems into the mix. To me, VL is trying to do a lot in a short period of time. Somewhere down the line, something has to give... inevitably. But I don't really blame the writers or the actors, per se - 'coz all of them are trying to work under certain circumstances that may have caused the time constraints.

I guess some of us may think it's still too early to predict. So, I for one, am just happy to see CH on-screen, playing her part, for as long as Carla's still around, and continue to appreciate and be grateful to VL for the unbelievable story of Carla that they've brought us since 2003! Really, I still can't believe it. Specifically the relationship part of Carla's story, with no-holds-barred for 6 years, told with great respect, reality and sensitivity.

So even if they don't manage to get Carla's latest relationship story to the same level as in the past, I'm ok with it simply because I do think that had the situation differed and CH were staying put, her relationship story would be fleshed out as well as the previous ones. That's why, I think, it took an abrupt turn right before Stella realized she had fallen in love with Carla. Since then, I could observe the rush. Perhaps it was a result of CH finally deciding not to extend her contract? It's possible. Because, I can tell you that, before that abrupt turn, the Starla story was written and played out pretty well. That's why I still prefer to watch Starla BEFORE they hooked up 'coz that was when there was no rush to the progress of their story at all. I could actually engage in it easily and comfortably without any reservations.

Going forward, I can't wait to see how it pans out when Carla finally makes the decision about the "big kahuna" - to go to Shanghai with Stella or not to go. That IS indeed a QUESTION!!

Well I can think of Maca of the Spanish series Hospital Central. There is equality & no double-standards there too. Patricia Vico is another amazing actress.



Couldnt agree with you more. Kudos to the writers who have created this amazing character, and to CH for bringing the character of Carla to life.

"Hospital Central" - I think I read something about it on Afterellen a while ago. But I think I'd conveniently forgotten about it 'coz I remember reading some comments about it, like, "another lesbian story with babies," & "switching teams," etc... I just tuned off. Perhaps it was premature (no pun intended) of me to discount it, eh? I'm not oppose to the "baby" thing as long as it's not the ONLY thing we see in lesbian relationships featured on TV. But the "switching teams" thing is not acceptable to me at all. It's one thing if the character is straight who falls in love with a gay person but then later on switch teams again. But a lesbian switching teams?? Not. Acceptable.

Sorry, went off-tangent for a moment there...

Anyway, can I assume that this is a long-running series with Maca being the permanent character? And she's portrayed as a lesbian from day 1 w/ proper character development in the series, and no sexual confusion on her part?

Hallo or in this case hola ccogz, I can answer this question for you that Maca/PV started on HC from Season 8, and continues as one of the lead roles in the now Season 18 that starts sometime in September. There's absolutely no confusion on her part, Maca knows she's a lesbian.

Basically the "baby drama", and subsequent angst started partially because their real-life actress' pregnancies dictated it, as well as the writers wanting to amp up the melodrama. One thing you need to know HC loves their melodrama

Anyway, where the so-called "switching teams" comes into play with Esther the Head Nurse, who has been with the show since it's inception, and until Maca was straight. Some friction that turned into friendship, the typical apprehension/fear on Esther's part, and subsequently a beautifully written love-story that culminated in M/E's wedding.

The downturn in the relationship was starting in the 11th season, which again can be partly attributed (in this case) to PV's real-life pregnancy. Almost right after the honeymoon, Maca was dead-set on having a baby, Esther was apprehensive, but did acquiesce. Still her doubts, and fears persisted in not feeling as the baby would be hers (as she wasn't the one to give birth), coupled with Esther's obsession with adopting Jorge a child of an old friend who was dying started the character assassination. Later of course PV's maternity leave necessitated Maca's absence, and put a greater strain on their marriage as Maca who was visiting her parents with Pedrito (their new-born son) refused Esther's pleas to come home sooner. This in turn made Esther quite insecure/lonely, and after a very bad day on the job she had a ONS (one night stand) with the new Samur doctor Raul (as Maca was gone during this time Est/R developed a friendship).

Long story short, that ONS produced baby number two Patricia, that Maca found out in the worst possible way as Esther had the ceiling fall on her, including being impaled by an iron, and during surgery learned the truth. Just a side-note you must know Esther is accident-prone, and basically is a "cat" with even more than nine lives And speaking of her being a "cat" just last season the psycho and ex-girlfriend of Esther grabbed an Esther trying to bring Bea to safety to ultimately have Bea bring the theory into practice "if I can't have you, no-one can" by grabbing Esther to take her in her jump off her apartment balcony. Did I mention HC loves melodrama lol

Sorry I got side-tracked As I was saying Esther is pregnant, Maca leaves her, but latter part of the season they get back together with Maca accepting baby number 2 as her own. More melodrama with now FB becoming pregnant in real-life so the writers who already had Esther give birth to Patricia, giving the girl a disease that you got it necessitates child number 3 (Paula). Maca gets Raul to donate the sperm, Esther has doubts how this will affect their marriage, but as Maca points out the important thing is saving Patricia's life.

As we learn Esther's doubts were quite real as the 13th season starting a year later has Maca (this is also known as Maca's character assassination) in mid-affair with Vero, who ends up working as a "shrink"at the hospital. Throughout Maca's affair with Vero, it becomes clear through Maca's actions this is her way of not dealing with her issues and her way to avoid her stressful situation. While it's clear Vero is in love with Maca, and though yes, Maca has feelings for Vero, what can't be denied through actions as well as non-verbal cues that Maca is still in love with Esther. Anyway, Esther who previously figured out the truth about the affair, but due to her own self-loathing/guilt by feeling partly to blame doesn't confront Maca until much later on. Finally, when Patricia is in the clear, Esther can't keep up the facade any longer, confronting, and subsequently leaving Maca paving for FB's own maternity leave.

During this time Maca continues her "relationship" with Vero, but when the new and improved Esther returns, it's obvious Maca isn't over Esther as she preoccupied with Esther moving on from Maca. Vero starts to get a clue it's hard to have a relationship with 3 people, as Maca may physically be with her, but emotionally is with Esther. Ultimately Vero leaves town not without trying to insinuate Maca leave with her. Maca again tells Vero she doesn't want to hurt her, and she can't give her what she wants and needs. At the end of that season Maca with some wine and a push from a blind-date gets her to declare her love to Esther at her apartment door. Lays a kiss on Esther, but oops Esther's girlfriend Bea comes in interrupting the moment. Esther at the hospital calls Maca on her behavior, and plays cold towards her pursuit. Esther realizes she too has unresolved issues, as she can't deny she hasn't stopped loving Maca. She does the right thing by breaking up with Bea, as she doesn't want to hurt her, M/E slowly reconcile, and Bea's grasp on reality/not being able to let go results in the finale with her "jump to oblivion" taking Esther along for the ride.

This is probably waaaaaaay more info then you wanted/needed, and I commend you if you read all this "testament" In a nutshell this is where we left off with the cliffhanger of Maca who arrives at Bea's apartment building sees them yells, "Esther", Bea gets even more crazed eyed indicating she made her decision, and B/E falling with the camera freezing on a desperate Maca screaming "Nooooooooo". Esther does survive, but yes melodrama on the way as Esther will have partial amnesia completely forgetting Maca, and how she fell in love with her.

In truth, this drama is more soapy than any soap can be lol

If you want to see any clips of M/E from season 8-17, Rachel's channel (subs included) is the place to go http://www.youtube.com/user/rachelm42